Nicole Holofcener (right) directs Catherine Keener in "Please Give."
Director and screenwriter Nicole Holofcener sipped coffee in the lounge of the Garden Hyatt in bustling DC. It was an amazing spring day in the Nation’s Capital and Holofcener was there to talk about her new film, “Please Give,” a film about what it means to be a good person in the here and now, in our apartments, our families, and our city streets, as we go about busy lives. It’s also a story of mortality and the things people leave behind. I was there to interview her, but Holofcener, a petite woman with quiet, thoughtful speech, ended up asking as many questions as she answered.
I write for sixseeds. We try to explore how to live in Western society without raising our kids with a sense of entitlement, help them have a perspective of something outside the latest iPhone app. So many of the themes in your movie fit in so well.
Too bad I don’t have any of the answers
Yeah. Neither do I.
Just some questions or confusion like everybody else.
But I loved that you were exploring it, that at least you were talking about it. Where did the idea for your film come from?
The idea came from the apartment situation, you know the family buying the apartment next to them and waiting for the woman to die. And that was the jumping off place for all of those issues, ethical issues to play with. I just thought of different things along the way, like Catherine Keener’s character has a daughter. I didn’t know that it was going to be about whether or not to spend a ton of money on your child or on a better cause. I guess it’s issues I have in my life and they ended up on the page.
What do you do? Do you just sit down and start writing?
Kind of. I had the idea about the apartment and I had Rebecca Hall’s character in mind. Takes mammograms. Kind of a shy girl. Takes care of her grandma. And I just kind of sat down and wrote after that. Believe me, I erased a lot. It’s not like everything that comes out of me is working beautifully.
I know that feeling.
You do? But yea, you have to try. I just sort of figure that, ok most of what I’m going to write is crap and then some of it is not. And then somehow things fit together. I don’t know how. I don’t outline it or use cards unless I’m lost and confused and I need to track things. That doesn’t always happen.
I love the idea of stuff…of stuff outliving us. Stuff being precious to someone and worthless to someone else. There’s a lot to unpack there.
(Laughing at my unintentional pun) Yes there is.
I have just boxes and boxes of generational things that people just shoved in boxes. I’ve been through the experience of having my grandparents pass and going through and these things that were so precious to my grandmother that nobody wants.
Like what?
She had all these figurines of birds. That she would collect. And cats.
Were they valuable?
They were semi-valuable. They were those kind of porcelain. There were so many of them and they weren’t anybody else’s style.
What did you do with them?
Those, I think they sold. I think my aunts and uncle sold them. But I kept a lot. I became the family historian. See? Now I’m talking about me and I’m supposed to be interviewing you.
It’s interesting to me. (laughs)
Just boxes where you go through and find shopping lists and, literally, Civil War letters in the same box.
From your family? That’s precious.
It is.
That’s incredible.
Which is why we didn’t throw it away. Because somebody back in 1914….
Where did they live?
California. Came to California after the Civil War and then everybody else lived in Southern California back when it was all orange fields.
Well, I had the same experience with my grandmother. That’s why I’m curious.
Did you?
Yeah. That’s why I’m curious. I gave her a shiny pink nightgown, like in the movie, that she said was too fancy. When she died, I went through her things to sell or keep and there were other presents I’d given her, you know, untouched. I guess I wasn’t so good at picking things out for her. But yeah, what to hold on and what to give away and things that were important to her didn’t have any meaning to me. Although after the fact, I wish I’d kept more. The fifty bucks I got for that silly purse, I wish I had it.
What was something you did keep?
I have a really beautiful, somewhat broken, it was already broken, and glued back together, very delicate teacup that she had in her cabinet, that I always loved. She used to say [lowers her voice like grandma] “You’re gonna get it. You’re gonna get it.” And I have that. I have some of her jewelry that I don’t really wear but I like to have. But it did make me examine the value of stuff. And it did absolutely make me throw away my more of my own stuff instead of saving it. I don’t know for what. What am I saving it for? It’s really a denial of our own death that we save this stuff. Because “one day…I’m gonna…” you know what? Your’e not.
It’s never gonna be useful.
No. You’re gonna die before you use that thing and someone else is going to have to deal with it.
I do think of that. I think I don’t want someone else to have to go through a box with my things that I kept that I hoped one day would come back around and be useful but is just junk, plus a few little precious things. It sounds like what you kept of your grandmother were things that trigger memories of her.
Yes. Absolutely.
The things were more relational.
Yeah. Nothing of value, really. And I don’t care if my kids have to go through a bunch of junk. It is an experience that you have to have. But somehow I want to have it cleared out already. I am already facing that issue that I’m not going to live forever and why have all this stuff that I don’t want?
I love how your characters say things that are so shocking, that all of us say, think, that many of us say. When she gonna die? That kind of thing. Is it hard to write something so real? Does it take a certain amount of courage to write?
It’s not hard for me to write that. It’s harder for me to write the fake stuff. Stuff that isn’t fun for me to write. I invented this character Mary [Amanda Peet's character] and she just is the one who says what everyone is thinking. Sometimes she’s rude and sometimes it’s refreshing, I think. I often wish I could say things without it being shocking to people. And I think I do tend to shock. How much I’m making. How much my house cost and people are like “Woah, ok.” It’s so dumb. The secrets. The taboos. And the politeness. There’s definitely people who would not think I was polite, and then there’s people I want to be with. And they’re like me. They want to call it what it is.
[Turning, she sees Catherine Keener in the lounge behind us, waving.] Hi sweetie. Come say hi.
Keener comes up. Holofcener graciously introduces her to me and they chat, wishing they could connect while in DC, talking plane travel, train travel, working, and plans to get their families together on the weekend. But sadly, Keener has interviews of her own and is whisked away.
[Holofcener turns back to me. Laughing.] I hate her.
Yeah. I can tell. (laughing) I was going to ask about your collaboration. You’ve done so much together.
We have. We’ve become good friends in the process. She’s great to work with.
I’ve really enojoyed…she’s been in a lot more movies recently. I’ve enjoyed Where the Wild Things are and Percy Jackson. Tha’s been really fun.
Do you have a kid?
I do.
Otherwise you woudn’t be seeing Percy Jackson.
I have a 12 year old, 10 year old and 8 year old
I have 12 year old boys. Twins. Wow. 8, 10, and 12.
[We spend a few moments comparing notes on raising twelve year old boys.]
So it sounds like you and Catherine, you’ve worked together for years and years and four projects together, what brings you back?
Each time I consider using somebody else. Although for Lovely and Amazing, I wrote the role for her. I couldn’t imagine anyone else in it. Each time I think she’d be the best for this. This would be amazing for her. And she’s just so talented. I can say she is really spontaneous and open. I never get tired of looking at her face. Watching dailies for hours and hours, and each time she does something different. And even watching the movie, I’m so absorbed. All the actors in this movie, I love.
You seem to have your finger on modern womanhood, especially the New York version of it. Do you feel like there’s that kind of vibe between the two of you? Do you see the world the same way?
Probably. All my close friends and I have the same values and the same sense of humor. The ability to laugh at a funeral, you know, that kind olf bad taste. And yet we all feel things so deeply, which gives us permission to do that, I think. But Catherine and I are really different. She’s not playing herself. She’s really channeling me and parts of herself that she can access. We’re different as people. But we’re the same age, have kids the same age, we live near each other, we have the same struggles and ideals.
What more do you need?
Yeah. She’s so great looking.
I found it so fascinating that there seemed to be a need for her to do compassionate work and it was almost more about her needs than the needs of the organization. Can you talk about that a little bit.
Sure. Well, I think that my own attempts to volunteer, I mean they’re always selfish, but I’m not a bad person. I still care about others and want to help and be valuable, but ultimately it’s selfish. I want to feel better about myself, but for good reasons. Most of my attempts to volunteer have been disappointing, not what I expected, calamitous, dangerous, sometimes I volunteer and there’s too many volunteers. All us white people in one room trying to do good and there’s not enough for us to do. I once tried to help this woman who was living in a single room try to get a better apartment and she thought I was trying to kill her and started threatening me. I never gave anybody my food who was waiting for a table, but sometimes I feel that foolish. So I’m poking fun at myself and other people who are similar to me in that way.
Is it worse to look foolish or is it worse to give up?
Oh, it’s definitely better to look foolish. I’m never going to give up. I’m sure I’m going to make an idiot of myself more times. I go right for it too. I don’t learn from my mistakes. And I imagine I do somebody good, sometimes.
What about the dynamic of marriage in the movie and the affair?
I think they actually have a pretty good marriage. Not having survived my own marriage, I was only marriage for eight years. I think marriage goes through stages and we’re catching this marriage in this particular stage. Both of them are very lonely in middle age. Their daughter needs them less. Their work is thriving but obviously for her it’s a struggle to make peace with it. He doesn’t feel that way, which disconnects them more. I think she judges him for not being more guilty. I think he’s feeling old and overweight and disconnected from his wife. And a real hot babe needs him for whatever reason. She’s got her own issues. This marriage will survive this. It might not survive another one, although I doubt there will be another one, and it might not survive in the long run. But at this moment, I feel like they’re ok they have each other. He complains that they’re partners in life but by the end it’s ok to be partners in life. It’s two sides of the same coin. You can be incredibly blessed to have a partner in life or incredibly cursed if you feel trapped and bored.
And I don’t even think about it this much about it when I’m writing. Its definitely more organic, intuitive.
I love the moment when he’s talking to Amanda Peet, when their affair ends, where he says “I hear sometimes it can help” and she realizes that he loves his wife. I think. That’s what I got out of it.
Absolutely. He’s not going to leave her. She’s pushing for that “something’s missing in your marriage.” Yeah. That’s disappointment for her. But he does love his wife.
Did you see that moment in your head?
No I was just writing dialog, they were just lying in bed talking. And I type out the first one and he says something and she says something and he says something and then I go “OH, I guess I ended it.” That’s just how I work. I don’t know how you work, but it’s kinda fun that way.
I think I work the same way but not as well.
It’s taken years. Believe me. It wasn’t as successful. It isn’t always successful. You’re risking writing some crap. But for me it’s the fun way to write.
What do you hope that the audience remembers, learns, walks away with?
I always want somebody to feel moved. Either they’re laughing or they’re crying. That’s the best compliment for me. And the most rewarding thing. It’s not an intellectual message. It’s an emotional one. I know when I go and see a movie that moves me, I’m a different person. Either for a minute or for the rest of my life. It seeps in. the message about family and opening your heart and doing the best you can and forgiving yourself for not doing great, great things, that would be nice to impart to people, myself included.
Thank you.
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